Apple deprecates OpenGL in macOS 10.14

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Apple deprecates OpenGL in macOS 10.14

Simon Drouin
OpenGL (and OpenCL) will be deprecated in the next version of macOS (10.14). What is the plan for VTK under MacOS? Metal implementation of rendering backend or drop support for macOS?

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Re: Apple deprecates OpenGL in macOS 10.14

Ken Martin
My read of it is that OpenGL apps will still run per the note below. I guess the question is for how long and what do we move to. My guess is vulkan + motlen maybe. I cannot imagine us droping support for OSX.

Apps built using OpenGL and OpenCL will continue to run in macOS 10.14, but these legacy technologies are deprecated in macOS 10.14.

On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 5:04 PM, Simon Drouin <[hidden email]> wrote:
OpenGL (and OpenCL) will be deprecated in the next version of macOS (10.14). What is the plan for VTK under MacOS? Metal implementation of rendering backend or drop support for macOS?

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Re: Apple deprecates OpenGL in macOS 10.14

Matthew Brett
In reply to this post by Simon Drouin
Hi,

On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 10:04 PM, Simon Drouin <[hidden email]> wrote:
> OpenGL (and OpenCL) will be deprecated in the next version of macOS (10.14).
> What is the plan for VTK under MacOS? Metal implementation of rendering
> backend or drop support for macOS?

There's some discussion on that here:
https://github.com/panda3d/panda3d/issues/339 . The opinion expressed
there is that it will be a very long time before Apple removes OpenGL,
even if deprecated.

Cheers,

Matthew
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Re: Apple deprecates OpenGL in macOS 10.14

David Thompson-2
In reply to this post by Simon Drouin
Hi Simon,

> OpenGL (and OpenCL) will be deprecated in the next version of macOS (10.14). What is the plan for VTK under MacOS? Metal implementation of rendering backend or drop support for macOS?

OpenGL will still be available in macOS 10.14, so we will still support it via OpenGL at a minimum. Releases after 10.14 are another issue.

Early VTK supported multiple backends, and recent experience with modern OpenGL, WebGL, OSPRay and OptiX ports has given us confidence that we can maintain macOS support. We are already talking about prototypes. We expect the maintenance cost to grow, however. Even with one backend, it takes effort to ensure compliance across multiple operating systems and drivers. Apple dropping OpenGL increases that burden.

        David
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Re: Apple deprecates OpenGL in macOS 10.14

David Gobbi
Apple deprecated Carbon in 2012 but didn't drop it until 2017.  I'm sure we'll see a few more MacOS releases with OpenGL.

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Re: Apple deprecates OpenGL in macOS 10.14

Simon Drouin
Vulkan seems like a good solution to minimize the number of backends to support, with MoltenVK as a Vulkan-compliant Metal wrapper on macOS. 

Is the open source license of MoltenVK flexible enough for most applications using VTK? (paraview, slicer and the different packaged versions of Slicer)

On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 5:18 PM David Gobbi <[hidden email]> wrote:
Apple deprecated Carbon in 2012 but didn't drop it until 2017.  I'm sure we'll see a few more MacOS releases with OpenGL.

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Re: Apple deprecates OpenGL in macOS 10.14

Sean McBride
In reply to this post by Simon Drouin
Hi all,

In addition to what others have said...

- OpenGL ES is also deprecated on iOS
- indeed deprecation doesn't mean it will be removed soon. It does mean however, that's it's likely to work worse and worse over the years, and see few to no bug fixes.
- Yes, Carbon was deprecated years ago, and yet it's still there. But it's only available to 32 bit processes, it never made the jump to 64 bit.  Something analogous could occur with OpenGL.
- if you use Apple's 'app stores', then note that a policy of theirs is to sometimes/always (dunno) reject apps that use deprecated APIs.

Even on other platforms, OpenGL has a hazy future.  Vulkan may be a good direction for VTK.  And MoltenVK could be the solution for Apple platforms.  Happily it was open sourced recently!

Cheers,

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Sean McBride, B. Eng                 [hidden email]
Rogue Research                        www.rogue-research.com
Mac Software Developer              Montréal, Québec, Canada


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Re: Apple deprecates OpenGL in macOS 10.14

Sean McBride
Hi all,

I updated my Rogue12 bot from macOS 10.9 to 10.14 beta.

It's not too bad:

<https://open.cdash.org/viewTest.php?onlyfailed&buildid=5412177>
<https://open.cdash.org/viewTest.php?onlyfailed&buildid=5412178>

Do any of those look like (OpenGL) bugs I should file with Apple?

Cheers,

--
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Sean McBride, B. Eng                 [hidden email]
Rogue Research                        www.rogue-research.com
Mac Software Developer              Montréal, Québec, Canada


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Re: Apple deprecates OpenGL in macOS 10.14

Ken Martin
everything but the timeout looks suspicious to me.

On Mon, Jun 11, 2018 at 5:21 PM, Sean McBride <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi all,

I updated my Rogue12 bot from macOS 10.9 to 10.14 beta.

It's not too bad:

<https://open.cdash.org/viewTest.php?onlyfailed&buildid=5412177>
<https://open.cdash.org/viewTest.php?onlyfailed&buildid=5412178>

Do any of those look like (OpenGL) bugs I should file with Apple?

Cheers,

--
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Sean McBride, B. Eng                 [hidden email]
Rogue Research                        www.rogue-research.com
Mac Software Developer              Montréal, Québec, Canada


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Ken Martin PhD
Distinguished Engineer
Kitware Inc.
101 East Weaver Street
Carrboro, North Carolina
27510 USA

This communication, including all attachments, contains confidential and legally privileged information, and it is intended only for the use of the addressee.  Access to this email by anyone else is unauthorized. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken in reliance on it is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you received this communication in error please notify us immediately and destroy the original message.  Thank you.

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Re: Apple deprecates OpenGL in macOS 10.14

Sean McBride
I filed a bug with Apple for the 'vtkRenderingCorePython-rotations' test failure, and it seems to be fixed in 10.14 beta 5.

Sean



On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 09:24:00 -0400, Ken Martin said:

>everything but the timeout looks suspicious to me.
>
>On Mon, Jun 11, 2018 at 5:21 PM, Sean McBride <[hidden email]>
>wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I updated my Rogue12 bot from macOS 10.9 to 10.14 beta.
>>
>> It's not too bad:
>>
>> <https://open.cdash.org/viewTest.php?onlyfailed&buildid=5412177>
>> <https://open.cdash.org/viewTest.php?onlyfailed&buildid=5412178>
>>
>> Do any of those look like (OpenGL) bugs I should file with Apple?


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