Transition to Discourse - thoughts from lurker

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Transition to Discourse - thoughts from lurker

Jan Hardenbergh

There is a question here that has not really been addressed in the Welcome To Discourse page:

 https://discourse.vtk.org/t/welcome-to-discourse/8

 

  • Why should they come here?

 

What is the motivation for the switch?

 

If this will make it easier to provide support, that’s a good reason. A good transition strategy might be to reply to questions that are asked on the mailing list in Discourse, and then reply to the mailing list with the link.

 

Another transition strategy would be to post the Topics Titles active for the past week to get people to go to Discourse if they are interested in that topic.

 

Back to lurking…

YON – Jan C. Hardenbergh, VolumePro SW Eng. Mgr. Terarecon, Inc.

 


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Re: Transition to Discourse - thoughts from lurker

Andras Lasso

A soft transition worked quite nicely for both Slicer and ITK. For a while, questions sent to the mailing list were still answered there but a users were reminded that further questions should be posted to the forum. Then we stopped responding on the mailing list but asked people to post messages to discourse. Finally, we disabled posting to the list and set an auto-response message that explained that questions should be now posted on the forum. This transition was completed in a few months.

 

It took a couple of months for google to start indexing the forum with high frequency and about a year to reach the same number of registered members as on the old mailing list.

 

Andras

 

From: vtkusers <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Jan Hardenbergh
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2019 12:48 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [vtkusers] Transition to Discourse - thoughts from lurker

 

There is a question here that has not really been addressed in the Welcome To Discourse page:

 https://discourse.vtk.org/t/welcome-to-discourse/8

 

  • Why should they come here?

 

What is the motivation for the switch?

 

If this will make it easier to provide support, that’s a good reason. A good transition strategy might be to reply to questions that are asked on the mailing list in Discourse, and then reply to the mailing list with the link.

 

Another transition strategy would be to post the Topics Titles active for the past week to get people to go to Discourse if they are interested in that topic.

 

Back to lurking…

YON – Jan C. Hardenbergh, VolumePro SW Eng. Mgr. Terarecon, Inc.

 


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Re: Transition to Discourse - thoughts from lurker

VTK - Users mailing list
Thanks for your feedback, Jan.

On Tue, Jan 22, 2019 at 1:28 PM Andras Lasso <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> A soft transition worked quite nicely for both Slicer and ITK. For a while, questions sent to the mailing list were still answered there but a users were reminded that further questions should be posted to the forum. Then we stopped responding on the mailing list but asked people to post messages to discourse. Finally, we disabled posting to the list and set an auto-response message that explained that questions should be now posted on the forum. This transition was completed in a few months.

We basically took the same approach for the ParaView mailing list
transition to discourse.paraview.org and it worked nicely.

> Why should they come here?
>
> What is the motivation for the switch?
>
> If this will make it easier to provide support, that’s a good reason.

Thanks for the feedback. The welcome message is something I have
overlooked. I have updated the welcome message to provide information
about the forum's purpose.

> A good transition strategy might be to reply to questions that are asked on the mailing list in Discourse, and then reply to the mailing list with the link.

This seems reasonable at first glance, but I think the process is too
complex in the sense that most responders won't opt to do it.
Responding to the question and including a reminder of the transition
to Discourse is something some of the more active members will be more
likely to do as the transition process goes on. By the way, there is a
place on the new forum for just this kind of feedback :-)

https://discourse.vtk.org/c/site-feedback

> Another transition strategy would be to post the Topics Titles active for the past week to get people to go to Discourse if they are interested in that topic.

That's a good idea. I'll plan to do that the next couple Fridays at least.

- Cory

>
>
> Back to lurking…
>
> YON – Jan C. Hardenbergh, VolumePro SW Eng. Mgr. Terarecon, Inc.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Powered by www.kitware.com
>
> Visit other Kitware open-source projects at http://www.kitware.com/opensource/opensource.html
>
> Please keep messages on-topic and check the VTK FAQ at: http://www.vtk.org/Wiki/VTK_FAQ
>
> Search the list archives at: http://markmail.org/search/?q=vtkusers
>
> Follow this link to subscribe/unsubscribe:
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--
Cory Quammen
Staff R&D Engineer
Kitware, Inc.
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Re: Transition to Discourse - thoughts from lurker

Elvis Stansvik
In reply to this post by Andras Lasso
Meanwhile I see that discussion is still active on the dev mailing
list. Shouldn't the VTK developers dogfood and use the Development
category on Discourse now? :)

Sorry, mostly joking. I'm one of the ones who are sad to see the
mailing lists go, and the greater transition to Discourse, as my life
is sort of built around my inbox :p I'll grudgingly accept defeat and
register of course.

Elvis

Den tis 22 jan. 2019 kl 19:28 skrev Andras Lasso <[hidden email]>:

>
> A soft transition worked quite nicely for both Slicer and ITK. For a while, questions sent to the mailing list were still answered there but a users were reminded that further questions should be posted to the forum. Then we stopped responding on the mailing list but asked people to post messages to discourse. Finally, we disabled posting to the list and set an auto-response message that explained that questions should be now posted on the forum. This transition was completed in a few months.
>
>
>
> It took a couple of months for google to start indexing the forum with high frequency and about a year to reach the same number of registered members as on the old mailing list.
>
>
>
> Andras
>
>
>
> From: vtkusers <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Jan Hardenbergh
> Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2019 12:48 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [vtkusers] Transition to Discourse - thoughts from lurker
>
>
>
> There is a question here that has not really been addressed in the Welcome To Discourse page:
>
>  https://discourse.vtk.org/t/welcome-to-discourse/8
>
>
>
> Why should they come here?
>
>
>
> What is the motivation for the switch?
>
>
>
> If this will make it easier to provide support, that’s a good reason. A good transition strategy might be to reply to questions that are asked on the mailing list in Discourse, and then reply to the mailing list with the link.
>
>
>
> Another transition strategy would be to post the Topics Titles active for the past week to get people to go to Discourse if they are interested in that topic.
>
>
>
> Back to lurking…
>
> YON – Jan C. Hardenbergh, VolumePro SW Eng. Mgr. Terarecon, Inc.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Powered by www.kitware.com
>
> Visit other Kitware open-source projects at http://www.kitware.com/opensource/opensource.html
>
> Please keep messages on-topic and check the VTK FAQ at: http://www.vtk.org/Wiki/VTK_FAQ
>
> Search the list archives at: http://markmail.org/search/?q=vtkusers
>
> Follow this link to subscribe/unsubscribe:
> https://vtk.org/mailman/listinfo/vtkusers
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Re: Transition to Discourse - thoughts from lurker

Elvis Stansvik
Den ons 23 jan. 2019 kl 19:50 skrev Cory Quammen <[hidden email]>:

>
> On Wed, Jan 23, 2019 at 1:46 PM Elvis Stansvik
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Meanwhile I see that discussion is still active on the dev mailing
> > list. Shouldn't the VTK developers dogfood and use the Development
> > category on Discourse now? :)
>
> Yep, that's the idea for new developer topics. I think it makes sense
> for existing discussions to be wrapped up on the mailing list for
> archival purposes.
>
> > Sorry, mostly joking. I'm one of the ones who are sad to see the
> > mailing lists go, and the greater transition to Discourse, as my life
> > is sort of built around my inbox :p I'll grudgingly accept defeat and
> > register of course.
>
> You can still use email! Albeit with some of the caveats mentioned in
> the discussion leading up to this transition.

Yep, threw in some thoughts in that that thread (I think). I
participate some in other communities that have transitioned to
Discourse (e.g. HDF5), and it's a pain.. I can't collect all my
correspondence in one place anymore, marking/unmarking of stuff as
read etc., the mails from Discourse has a lot of cruft (buttons/links)
and the threading/replying inline doesn't work well. Also, if I reply
to a thread via the web UI, it'll show up as unread in my inbox
(naturally), which is annoying because I use that to keep an eye on
topics I follow. Also can't catch up on stuff while offline, which
occasionally do happen.

Wait, now I started a rambling when I promised myself not to do it :)
It's a community decision and I accept that. Perhaps the mail
integration will improve.

Elvis

>
> - Cory
>
> >
> > Elvis
> >
> > Den tis 22 jan. 2019 kl 19:28 skrev Andras Lasso <[hidden email]>:
> > >
> > > A soft transition worked quite nicely for both Slicer and ITK. For a while, questions sent to the mailing list were still answered there but a users were reminded that further questions should be posted to the forum. Then we stopped responding on the mailing list but asked people to post messages to discourse. Finally, we disabled posting to the list and set an auto-response message that explained that questions should be now posted on the forum. This transition was completed in a few months.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > It took a couple of months for google to start indexing the forum with high frequency and about a year to reach the same number of registered members as on the old mailing list.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Andras
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From: vtkusers <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Jan Hardenbergh
> > > Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2019 12:48 PM
> > > To: [hidden email]
> > > Subject: [vtkusers] Transition to Discourse - thoughts from lurker
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > There is a question here that has not really been addressed in the Welcome To Discourse page:
> > >
> > >  https://discourse.vtk.org/t/welcome-to-discourse/8
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Why should they come here?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > What is the motivation for the switch?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > If this will make it easier to provide support, that’s a good reason. A good transition strategy might be to reply to questions that are asked on the mailing list in Discourse, and then reply to the mailing list with the link.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Another transition strategy would be to post the Topics Titles active for the past week to get people to go to Discourse if they are interested in that topic.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Back to lurking…
> > >
> > > YON – Jan C. Hardenbergh, VolumePro SW Eng. Mgr. Terarecon, Inc.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Powered by www.kitware.com
> > >
> > > Visit other Kitware open-source projects at http://www.kitware.com/opensource/opensource.html
> > >
> > > Please keep messages on-topic and check the VTK FAQ at: http://www.vtk.org/Wiki/VTK_FAQ
> > >
> > > Search the list archives at: http://markmail.org/search/?q=vtkusers
> > >
> > > Follow this link to subscribe/unsubscribe:
> > > https://vtk.org/mailman/listinfo/vtkusers
> > _______________________________________________
> > Powered by www.kitware.com
> >
> > Visit other Kitware open-source projects at http://www.kitware.com/opensource/opensource.html
> >
> > Please keep messages on-topic and check the VTK FAQ at: http://www.vtk.org/Wiki/VTK_FAQ
> >
> > Search the list archives at: http://markmail.org/search/?q=vtkusers
> >
> > Follow this link to subscribe/unsubscribe:
> > https://vtk.org/mailman/listinfo/vtkusers
>
>
>
> --
> Cory Quammen
> Staff R&D Engineer
> Kitware, Inc.
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Re: Transition to Discourse - thoughts from lurker

Bill Lorensen
In reply to this post by Elvis Stansvik
I'm sorry but I just use the email on discourse. Much easier to respond. I do the same on slicer.

On Wed, Jan 23, 2019, 10:46 AM Elvis Stansvik <[hidden email] wrote:
Meanwhile I see that discussion is still active on the dev mailing
list. Shouldn't the VTK developers dogfood and use the Development
category on Discourse now? :)

Sorry, mostly joking. I'm one of the ones who are sad to see the
mailing lists go, and the greater transition to Discourse, as my life
is sort of built around my inbox :p I'll grudgingly accept defeat and
register of course.

Elvis

Den tis 22 jan. 2019 kl 19:28 skrev Andras Lasso <[hidden email]>:
>
> A soft transition worked quite nicely for both Slicer and ITK. For a while, questions sent to the mailing list were still answered there but a users were reminded that further questions should be posted to the forum. Then we stopped responding on the mailing list but asked people to post messages to discourse. Finally, we disabled posting to the list and set an auto-response message that explained that questions should be now posted on the forum. This transition was completed in a few months.
>
>
>
> It took a couple of months for google to start indexing the forum with high frequency and about a year to reach the same number of registered members as on the old mailing list.
>
>
>
> Andras
>
>
>
> From: vtkusers <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Jan Hardenbergh
> Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2019 12:48 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [vtkusers] Transition to Discourse - thoughts from lurker
>
>
>
> There is a question here that has not really been addressed in the Welcome To Discourse page:
>
https://discourse.vtk.org/t/welcome-to-discourse/8
>
>
>
> Why should they come here?
>
>
>
> What is the motivation for the switch?
>
>
>
> If this will make it easier to provide support, that’s a good reason. A good transition strategy might be to reply to questions that are asked on the mailing list in Discourse, and then reply to the mailing list with the link.
>
>
>
> Another transition strategy would be to post the Topics Titles active for the past week to get people to go to Discourse if they are interested in that topic.
>
>
>
> Back to lurking…
>
> YON – Jan C. Hardenbergh, VolumePro SW Eng. Mgr. Terarecon, Inc.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Powered by www.kitware.com
>
> Visit other Kitware open-source projects at http://www.kitware.com/opensource/opensource.html
>
> Please keep messages on-topic and check the VTK FAQ at: http://www.vtk.org/Wiki/VTK_FAQ
>
> Search the list archives at: http://markmail.org/search/?q=vtkusers
>
> Follow this link to subscribe/unsubscribe:
> https://vtk.org/mailman/listinfo/vtkusers
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Re: Transition to Discourse - thoughts from lurker

Elvis Stansvik
In reply to this post by Elvis Stansvik
Den ons 23 jan. 2019 kl 20:24 skrev Marcus D. Hanwell
<[hidden email]>:

>
> On Wed, Jan 23, 2019 at 2:05 PM Elvis Stansvik <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Den ons 23 jan. 2019 kl 19:50 skrev Cory Quammen <[hidden email]>:
>> >
>> > On Wed, Jan 23, 2019 at 1:46 PM Elvis Stansvik
>> > <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Meanwhile I see that discussion is still active on the dev mailing
>> > > list. Shouldn't the VTK developers dogfood and use the Development
>> > > category on Discourse now? :)
>> >
>> > Yep, that's the idea for new developer topics. I think it makes sense
>> > for existing discussions to be wrapped up on the mailing list for
>> > archival purposes.
>> >
>> > > Sorry, mostly joking. I'm one of the ones who are sad to see the
>> > > mailing lists go, and the greater transition to Discourse, as my life
>> > > is sort of built around my inbox :p I'll grudgingly accept defeat and
>> > > register of course.
>> >
>> > You can still use email! Albeit with some of the caveats mentioned in
>> > the discussion leading up to this transition.
>>
>> Yep, threw in some thoughts in that that thread (I think). I
>> participate some in other communities that have transitioned to
>> Discourse (e.g. HDF5), and it's a pain.. I can't collect all my
>> correspondence in one place anymore, marking/unmarking of stuff as
>> read etc., the mails from Discourse has a lot of cruft (buttons/links)
>> and the threading/replying inline doesn't work well. Also, if I reply
>> to a thread via the web UI, it'll show up as unread in my inbox
>> (naturally), which is annoying because I use that to keep an eye on
>> topics I follow. Also can't catch up on stuff while offline, which
>> occasionally do happen.
>>
>> Wait, now I started a rambling when I promised myself not to do it :)
>> It's a community decision and I accept that. Perhaps the mail
>> integration will improve.
>
>
> I am trying to finish up some writing, and so procrastination made me check the lists. I love and hate Discourse, there, I said it! The interface is nice, and I think you can express more, fix typos, have richer interactions, and provide a better thing to be indexed/viewed by others.
>
> Discourse is still a pain for people that participate in many communities, email is hard to beat for using the client you prefer, threading support, having layers of communities you work with. I have a chemistry folder with chemistry lists I am on within, a Kitware folder with Kitware related communities, general lists folder for all the others.
>
> Each of those subfolders is starting to become their own Discourse instance, and it makes it harder for me to keep track of all of them, and view them all from my mail client, replying with ease. I get the impression that mailing lists are going the way of IRC :-) I am trying to adapt my habits, but often miss notifications on threads I am taking part in, and don't reply for weeks or more.
>
> I suspect I need to develop new habits, spending a little time checking in on Discourse instances I interact with every now and then, possibly tweaking the notifications, and how I filter them in my email folder. I genuinely prefer the added richness in discussion threads, I haven't tried replying to Discourse stuff through email. Attending open source conferences/workshops Discourse is improving engagement with newer community members.
>
> I think on balance it is a great step forward, but when something works well for you (and me) it can feel like a waste of time changing it up. It does us all good to learn new things, tangentially it has been fun to watch the evolution of static web site, to server side includes, to Dreamweaver et al, to PHP/MySQL content managers, to template-based static web sites. I am a huge fan of Hugo, you can use GitHub for review, Travis to deploy, ...
>
> I really should get back to writing ;-) Sad to see the demise of the lists, and need to spend a little time retooling my habits around communication with communities.

Yes, all good thoughts Marcus. I feel much the same.

Elvis
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Re: [vtk-developers] Transition to Discourse - thoughts from lurker

pdhahn
In reply to this post by Elvis Stansvik
I realize I am not an important voice for this topic, but with
Discourse, I can say that I anticipate termination of "real-time"
monitoring of VTK issues that I now do with the mailing lists. I do not
want to be on a "free" community site that is or might become oriented
to make money of me one way or another (hidden), tracking me, etc. etc.

Hmmm ... so how long will it take Microsoft to come in and buy Discourse
just like they did with Github? And what is the relationship (if any)
between Bloomberg's Discourse Analytics (www.discourseanalytics.com) and
Discourse.org? They both have similar logos. Just wondering.

Bye,
Paul

On 1/23/19 1:27 PM, Sean McBride wrote:

> On Wed, 23 Jan 2019 20:05:17 +0100, Elvis Stansvik said:
>
>>> You can still use email! Albeit with some of the caveats mentioned in
>>> the discussion leading up to this transition.
>> Yep, threw in some thoughts in that that thread (I think). I
>> participate some in other communities that have transitioned to
>> Discourse (e.g. HDF5), and it's a pain.
> Yup, it's quite a lot worse. :(  Alas, I expect my participation will decrease because of it.
>
> Sean
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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>
>

--


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Re: [vtk-developers] Transition to Discourse - thoughts from lurker

VTK - Users mailing list
On Wed, Jan 23, 2019 at 14:43:28 -0600, Paul Douglas Hahn wrote:
> I realize I am not an important voice for this topic, but with
> Discourse, I can say that I anticipate termination of "real-time"
> monitoring of VTK issues that I now do with the mailing lists. I do not
> want to be on a "free" community site that is or might become oriented
> to make money of me one way or another (hidden), tracking me, etc. etc.

Off topic, but I recommend an adblocker since much of the Web is doing
that. However...

> Hmmm ... so how long will it take Microsoft to come in and buy Discourse
> just like they did with Github? And what is the relationship (if any)
> between Bloomberg's Discourse Analytics (www.discourseanalytics.com) and
> Discourse.org? They both have similar logos. Just wondering.

we use our own Discourse hosting; it isn't on discourse.org, so
Microsoft buying it wouldn't affect our deployment (directly).

--Ben
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Re: [vtk-developers] Transition to Discourse - thoughts from lurker

pdhahn
In reply to this post by pdhahn
OK, thanks for that. Sounds more innocuous.

As a remark, I believe that the quality of analytic products done on mailing lists is far less than that which can be done on community sites with engines in the middle, especially for one reason: the latter allows tracking message reads in detail, and moreover, who does the reads (vs. who does not), and what are the characteristics. All this to formulate rich feature vectors for ANN training. I believe that that is not feasible with mailing lists, but I may be wrong. And of course, it's easy enough to correlate names to confidential info already snarfed into the world of databases out there.

- Paul

On 1/23/19 4:03 PM, David Gobbi wrote:
Hi Paul,

As far as I understand, Kitware is running Discourse on their own server.  So even if it is bought out, Kitware can continue to use the version that they currently have and fork/patch it as necessary.  And I'm sure that if anyone audits the Discourse code base and finds that it is leaking analytics to someone, Kitware would be happy to plug the leak.

In any case, there's plenty of analytics that companies can do based on public mailing lists, and I don't think a public forum is any different in that regard unless you include confidential info in your profile.

  David


On Wed, Jan 23, 2019 at 2:25 PM Paul Douglas Hahn <[hidden email]> wrote:
I realize I am not an important voice for this topic, but with
Discourse, I can say that I anticipate termination of "real-time"
monitoring of VTK issues that I now do with the mailing lists. I do not
want to be on a "free" community site that is or might become oriented
to make money of me one way or another (hidden), tracking me, etc. etc.

Hmmm ... so how long will it take Microsoft to come in and buy Discourse
just like they did with Github? And what is the relationship (if any)
between Bloomberg's Discourse Analytics (www.discourseanalytics.com) and
Discourse.org? They both have similar logos. Just wondering.

Bye,
Paul

-- 



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