World Units

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World Units

Matthew Troke
What units are world dimensions in VTK? For example, if I create a cube that is 1.0 in width, is that considered to be 1 meter, 1 cm, etc? Or are they unitless and defined by the source data? I assume if you are loading in some type of medical data, units are important.

Matt

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Matthew Troke
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Office: 1-709-701-0239

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Re: World Units

David E DeMarle
vtk itself is unitless. it is up to the application to keep track of that.

David E DeMarle
Kitware, Inc.
Principal Engineer
21 Corporate Drive
Clifton Park, NY 12065-8662
Phone: 518-881-4909


On Mon, Nov 19, 2018 at 9:53 AM Matthew Troke <[hidden email]> wrote:
What units are world dimensions in VTK? For example, if I create a cube that is 1.0 in width, is that considered to be 1 meter, 1 cm, etc? Or are they unitless and defined by the source data? I assume if you are loading in some type of medical data, units are important.

Matt

--
Matthew Troke
Software Engineer
Office: 1-709-701-0239

This email and any attachments are confidential and may be privileged. Any unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or distribution of the information received is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient please contact the sender immediately by return email confirming that you have and will delete all communications related to the email and any attachments sent to you in error.
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Re: World Units

Ken Martin
Although the OpenVR module does use the notion of a physical to world transformation to map between meters in the VR room and the world coordinates.


On Mon, Nov 19, 2018 at 9:57 AM David E DeMarle <[hidden email]> wrote:
vtk itself is unitless. it is up to the application to keep track of that.

David E DeMarle
Kitware, Inc.
Principal Engineer
21 Corporate Drive
Clifton Park, NY 12065-8662
Phone: 518-881-4909


On Mon, Nov 19, 2018 at 9:53 AM Matthew Troke <[hidden email]> wrote:
What units are world dimensions in VTK? For example, if I create a cube that is 1.0 in width, is that considered to be 1 meter, 1 cm, etc? Or are they unitless and defined by the source data? I assume if you are loading in some type of medical data, units are important.

Matt

--
Matthew Troke
Software Engineer
Office: 1-709-701-0239

This email and any attachments are confidential and may be privileged. Any unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or distribution of the information received is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient please contact the sender immediately by return email confirming that you have and will delete all communications related to the email and any attachments sent to you in error.
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--
Ken Martin PhD
Distinguished Engineer
Kitware Inc.
101 East Weaver Street
Carrboro, North Carolina
27510 USA

This communication, including all attachments, contains confidential and legally privileged information, and it is intended only for the use of the addressee.  Access to this email by anyone else is unauthorized. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken in reliance on it is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you received this communication in error please notify us immediately and destroy the original message.  Thank you.

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Re: World Units

David E DeMarle via vtkusers

We’ve not been using OpenVR directly, but have been using it indirectly with medical data. We ended up using m as the real world units, and then scaling loaded medical data by a factor of 1000 to convert from the commonly used mm, to m. This has worked well, but there are the odd gotchas when doing this– watch out for things like volume rendering step size which you may also need to scale.

 

Gavin Wheeler

 

From: vtkusers <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Ken Martin
Sent: 19 November 2018 16:22
To: Dave Demarle <[hidden email]>
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [vtkusers] World Units

 

Although the OpenVR module does use the notion of a physical to world transformation to map between meters in the VR room and the world coordinates.

 

 

On Mon, Nov 19, 2018 at 9:57 AM David E DeMarle <[hidden email]> wrote:

vtk itself is unitless. it is up to the application to keep track of that.

 

David E DeMarle
Kitware, Inc.
Principal Engineer
21 Corporate Drive
Clifton Park, NY 12065-8662
Phone: 518-881-4909

 

 

On Mon, Nov 19, 2018 at 9:53 AM Matthew Troke <[hidden email]> wrote:

What units are world dimensions in VTK? For example, if I create a cube that is 1.0 in width, is that considered to be 1 meter, 1 cm, etc? Or are they unitless and defined by the source data? I assume if you are loading in some type of medical data, units are important.

 

Matt

 

--

Matthew Troke

Software Engineer

Office: 1-709-701-0239

 

This email and any attachments are confidential and may be privileged. Any unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or distribution of the information received is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient please contact the sender immediately by return email confirming that you have and will delete all communications related to the email and any attachments sent to you in error.

_______________________________________________
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Search the list archives at: http://markmail.org/search/?q=vtkusers

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--

Ken Martin PhD

Distinguished Engineer
Kitware Inc.

101 East Weaver Street
Carrboro, North Carolina
27510 USA

This communication, including all attachments, contains confidential and legally privileged information, and it is intended only for the use of the addressee.  Access to this email by anyone else is unauthorized. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken in reliance on it is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you received this communication in error please notify us immediately and destroy the original message.  Thank you.


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Re: World Units

David Gobbi
Hi Gavin,

Using mm for medical image data (with the exception of microscopy) is the most common choice.  I certainly wouldn't recommend using anything else.  I've also noticed the need to tweak volume rendering depending on resolution.

  David


On Tue, Nov 20, 2018 at 8:00 AM Wheeler, Gavin via vtkusers <[hidden email]> wrote:

We’ve not been using OpenVR directly, but have been using it indirectly with medical data. We ended up using m as the real world units, and then scaling loaded medical data by a factor of 1000 to convert from the commonly used mm, to m. This has worked well, but there are the odd gotchas when doing this– watch out for things like volume rendering step size which you may also need to scale.

 

Gavin Wheeler

 

From: vtkusers <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Ken Martin
Sent: 19 November 2018 16:22
To: Dave Demarle <[hidden email]>
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [vtkusers] World Units

 

Although the OpenVR module does use the notion of a physical to world transformation to map between meters in the VR room and the world coordinates.

 

 

On Mon, Nov 19, 2018 at 9:57 AM David E DeMarle <[hidden email]> wrote:

vtk itself is unitless. it is up to the application to keep track of that.

 

David E DeMarle
Kitware, Inc.
Principal Engineer
21 Corporate Drive
Clifton Park, NY 12065-8662
Phone: 518-881-4909


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Re: World Units

Jean-Christophe Fillion-Robin-2
Hi Gavin,

If you are working with medical data, you could look at 3D slicer (https://slicer.org), it leverages VTK and ITK and also has the notion of units built-in.

Hth
Jc

On Tue, Nov 20, 2018, 9:13 AM David Gobbi <[hidden email] wrote:
Hi Gavin,

Using mm for medical image data (with the exception of microscopy) is the most common choice.  I certainly wouldn't recommend using anything else.  I've also noticed the need to tweak volume rendering depending on resolution.

  David


On Tue, Nov 20, 2018 at 8:00 AM Wheeler, Gavin via vtkusers <[hidden email]> wrote:

We’ve not been using OpenVR directly, but have been using it indirectly with medical data. We ended up using m as the real world units, and then scaling loaded medical data by a factor of 1000 to convert from the commonly used mm, to m. This has worked well, but there are the odd gotchas when doing this– watch out for things like volume rendering step size which you may also need to scale.

 

Gavin Wheeler

 

From: vtkusers <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Ken Martin
Sent: 19 November 2018 16:22
To: Dave Demarle <[hidden email]>
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [vtkusers] World Units

 

Although the OpenVR module does use the notion of a physical to world transformation to map between meters in the VR room and the world coordinates.

 

 

On Mon, Nov 19, 2018 at 9:57 AM David E DeMarle <[hidden email]> wrote:

vtk itself is unitless. it is up to the application to keep track of that.

 

David E DeMarle
Kitware, Inc.
Principal Engineer
21 Corporate Drive
Clifton Park, NY 12065-8662
Phone: 518-881-4909

_______________________________________________
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Visit other Kitware open-source projects at http://www.kitware.com/opensource/opensource.html

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Search the list archives at: http://markmail.org/search/?q=vtkusers

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Re: World Units

Matthew Troke
Could you elaborate a little more on support for units in Slicer? What do you mean by "built-in"?

Matt

On Tue, Nov 20, 2018 at 10:41 PM Jean-Christophe Fillion-Robin <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Gavin,

If you are working with medical data, you could look at 3D slicer (https://slicer.org), it leverages VTK and ITK and also has the notion of units built-in.

Hth
Jc

On Tue, Nov 20, 2018, 9:13 AM David Gobbi <[hidden email] wrote:
Hi Gavin,

Using mm for medical image data (with the exception of microscopy) is the most common choice.  I certainly wouldn't recommend using anything else.  I've also noticed the need to tweak volume rendering depending on resolution.

  David


On Tue, Nov 20, 2018 at 8:00 AM Wheeler, Gavin via vtkusers <[hidden email]> wrote:

We’ve not been using OpenVR directly, but have been using it indirectly with medical data. We ended up using m as the real world units, and then scaling loaded medical data by a factor of 1000 to convert from the commonly used mm, to m. This has worked well, but there are the odd gotchas when doing this– watch out for things like volume rendering step size which you may also need to scale.

 

Gavin Wheeler

 

From: vtkusers <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Ken Martin
Sent: 19 November 2018 16:22
To: Dave Demarle <[hidden email]>
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [vtkusers] World Units

 

Although the OpenVR module does use the notion of a physical to world transformation to map between meters in the VR room and the world coordinates.

 

 

On Mon, Nov 19, 2018 at 9:57 AM David E DeMarle <[hidden email]> wrote:

vtk itself is unitless. it is up to the application to keep track of that.

 

David E DeMarle
Kitware, Inc.
Principal Engineer
21 Corporate Drive
Clifton Park, NY 12065-8662
Phone: 518-881-4909

_______________________________________________
Powered by www.kitware.com

Visit other Kitware open-source projects at http://www.kitware.com/opensource/opensource.html

Please keep messages on-topic and check the VTK FAQ at: http://www.vtk.org/Wiki/VTK_FAQ

Search the list archives at: http://markmail.org/search/?q=vtkusers

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--
Matthew Troke
Software Engineer
Office: 1-709-701-0239

This email and any attachments are confidential and may be privileged. Any unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or distribution of the information received is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient please contact the sender immediately by return email confirming that you have and will delete all communications related to the email and any attachments sent to you in error.

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Re: World Units

Jean-Christophe Fillion-Robin-2
Hi Matt,

Units are intended to be used to describe the quantity of a given object. Units should help the application to be smarter about how the user can access/view/interact with the data. For example, units help the user by displaying the current unit in spinboxes as a suffix (1.3mm instead of 1.3).

For more details, see here

Jc

On Wed, Nov 21, 2018 at 9:28 AM Matthew Troke <[hidden email]> wrote:
Could you elaborate a little more on support for units in Slicer? What do you mean by "built-in"?

Matt

On Tue, Nov 20, 2018 at 10:41 PM Jean-Christophe Fillion-Robin <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Gavin,

If you are working with medical data, you could look at 3D slicer (https://slicer.org), it leverages VTK and ITK and also has the notion of units built-in.

Hth
Jc

On Tue, Nov 20, 2018, 9:13 AM David Gobbi <[hidden email] wrote:
Hi Gavin,

Using mm for medical image data (with the exception of microscopy) is the most common choice.  I certainly wouldn't recommend using anything else.  I've also noticed the need to tweak volume rendering depending on resolution.

  David


On Tue, Nov 20, 2018 at 8:00 AM Wheeler, Gavin via vtkusers <[hidden email]> wrote:

We’ve not been using OpenVR directly, but have been using it indirectly with medical data. We ended up using m as the real world units, and then scaling loaded medical data by a factor of 1000 to convert from the commonly used mm, to m. This has worked well, but there are the odd gotchas when doing this– watch out for things like volume rendering step size which you may also need to scale.

 

Gavin Wheeler

 

From: vtkusers <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Ken Martin
Sent: 19 November 2018 16:22
To: Dave Demarle <[hidden email]>
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [vtkusers] World Units

 

Although the OpenVR module does use the notion of a physical to world transformation to map between meters in the VR room and the world coordinates.

 

 

On Mon, Nov 19, 2018 at 9:57 AM David E DeMarle <[hidden email]> wrote:

vtk itself is unitless. it is up to the application to keep track of that.

 

David E DeMarle
Kitware, Inc.
Principal Engineer
21 Corporate Drive
Clifton Park, NY 12065-8662
Phone: 518-881-4909

_______________________________________________
Powered by www.kitware.com

Visit other Kitware open-source projects at http://www.kitware.com/opensource/opensource.html

Please keep messages on-topic and check the VTK FAQ at: http://www.vtk.org/Wiki/VTK_FAQ

Search the list archives at: http://markmail.org/search/?q=vtkusers

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Search the list archives at: http://markmail.org/search/?q=vtkusers

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--
Matthew Troke
Software Engineer
Office: 1-709-701-0239

This email and any attachments are confidential and may be privileged. Any unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or distribution of the information received is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient please contact the sender immediately by return email confirming that you have and will delete all communications related to the email and any attachments sent to you in error.

_______________________________________________
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Visit other Kitware open-source projects at http://www.kitware.com/opensource/opensource.html

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Re: World Units

David E DeMarle via vtkusers

Hi,

 

3D Slicer does indeed have a lot of functionality, and we use it within our department. However, the project I am working on is primarily concerned with Interaction and User Interface, so we are using VTK within Unity. By default Unity’s units are metres, and we stuck with that. However, since we made that decision we now know more about Unity, and their advice is to scale assets/worlds etc. as appropriate if metres isn’t appropriate. So effectively it’s unitless, but by default the unitless units are metres. If that makes sense. In the end metres works for us pretty well as we are developing room scale applications.

 

I think it is similar for VTK, for one application there may be a default unit, but for another application a different one. I imagine tracking these and ensuring they all work would be a bit of a nightmare/ basically impossible to ensure. So it and responsibility are left up to the user. My solution to this isn’t elegant – for variables with a unit I suffix them ‘m’ or ‘mm’ or ‘s’ etc.

 

Best regards,

 

Gavin

 

 

From: vtkusers <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Jean-Christophe Fillion-Robin
Sent: 21 November 2018 16:42
To: [hidden email]
Cc: David Gobbi <[hidden email]>; Steve Pieper <[hidden email]>; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [vtkusers] World Units

 

Hi Matt,

 

Units are intended to be used to describe the quantity of a given object. Units should help the application to be smarter about how the user can access/view/interact with the data. For example, units help the user by displaying the current unit in spinboxes as a suffix (1.3mm instead of 1.3).

 

For more details, see here

 

Jc

 

On Wed, Nov 21, 2018 at 9:28 AM Matthew Troke <[hidden email]> wrote:

Could you elaborate a little more on support for units in Slicer? What do you mean by "built-in"?

 

Matt

 

On Tue, Nov 20, 2018 at 10:41 PM Jean-Christophe Fillion-Robin <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Gavin,

 

If you are working with medical data, you could look at 3D slicer (https://slicer.org), it leverages VTK and ITK and also has the notion of units built-in.

 

Hth

Jc

 

On Tue, Nov 20, 2018, 9:13 AM David Gobbi <[hidden email] wrote:

Hi Gavin,

 

Using mm for medical image data (with the exception of microscopy) is the most common choice.  I certainly wouldn't recommend using anything else.  I've also noticed the need to tweak volume rendering depending on resolution.

 

  David

 

On Tue, Nov 20, 2018 at 8:00 AM Wheeler, Gavin via vtkusers <[hidden email]> wrote:

We’ve not been using OpenVR directly, but have been using it indirectly with medical data. We ended up using m as the real world units, and then scaling loaded medical data by a factor of 1000 to convert from the commonly used mm, to m. This has worked well, but there are the odd gotchas when doing this– watch out for things like volume rendering step size which you may also need to scale.

 

Gavin Wheeler

 

From: vtkusers <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Ken Martin
Sent: 19 November 2018 16:22
To: Dave Demarle <[hidden email]>
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [vtkusers] World Units

 

Although the OpenVR module does use the notion of a physical to world transformation to map between meters in the VR room and the world coordinates.

 

 

On Mon, Nov 19, 2018 at 9:57 AM David E DeMarle <[hidden email]> wrote:

vtk itself is unitless. it is up to the application to keep track of that.

 

David E DeMarle
Kitware, Inc.
Principal Engineer
21 Corporate Drive
Clifton Park, NY 12065-8662
Phone: 518-881-4909

_______________________________________________
Powered by www.kitware.com

Visit other Kitware open-source projects at http://www.kitware.com/opensource/opensource.html

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--

Matthew Troke

Software Engineer

Office: 1-709-701-0239

 

This email and any attachments are confidential and may be privileged. Any unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or distribution of the information received is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient please contact the sender immediately by return email confirming that you have and will delete all communications related to the email and any attachments sent to you in error.


_______________________________________________
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